The Python Paradox: "I didn't mean by this that Java programmers are dumb. I meant that Python programmers are smart. It's a lot of work to learn a new programming language. And people don't learn Python because it will get them a job; they learn it because they genuinely like to program and aren't satisfied with the languages they already know. Which makes them exactly the kind of programmers companies should want to hire."
There are, of course, many very very bright Java programmers out there. But there are also a huge number of "I learnt it 'cos my company made me, only in it for the money" types using Java. Burger flippers don't only use VB! Whereas Python programmers are on average of an enormously high standard indeed. (After all, even I can't drag the average down that far; I'm only one man.)
Posted to Python by Simon Brunning at August 16, 2004 01:03 PMTo program well in Python doesn't require more skill than to program well in Java - for the most part the skillset is the same. However outside of teaching, I doubt many people give python a second look. I know plenty of Java programmers who love Python, as they have a real appreciation as to the features it provides over and above Java.
If the original argument was "More bright people (%-wise) make money programming in Pythin than Java" then I'd probably agree - the python market is so small out there that to make a living doing it you probably have to be fairly bright!
Posted by: Sam Newman on August 16, 2004 02:37 PMI don't think that's quite the argument Paul Graham was making. I'll try to summarise what *I* think he's trying to say - and my slight difference with him.
Java and VB (and so forth) are 'comfortable' languages from a big companies point of view. Most people who know these languages were either trained in them by their company, or learned them in order to get a job. Many of these people have no real interest in software development - it's just a job. They'll never learn a language that they don't have to, or read a technical book or article that they don't have to. Nor, indeed, will they read blogs - how low can you get? ;-)
Python and Lisp (and Ruby, and Scheme, and Haskell and so forth) are not languages that you'll ever get a job from knowing. Most of the people who learn and use these languages do it off their own backs, for the love of it. They *do* read* books, they read blogs, they meet each other in the evenings to talk about frameworks and patterns and Dr. Who and what have you, and they *care*.
Now, Paul contends that these people are necessarily 'smart'. I think that it's actually just that they are *enthusiasts*.
Paul is just arguing that these enthusiasts (or 'smart' people) are better at their jobs that non-enthusiast, on average, and that while you certainly find that *some* Java programmers are enthusiasts, you'll find that nearly *all* Python programmers are.
Posted by: Simon Brunning on August 16, 2004 03:04 PMThe home of the best burger flipping code in the world;
Courtesy of Accordion Guy[1]
[1] http://farm.tucows.com/blog
Posted by: Andy Todd on August 18, 2004 09:23 AMFunny - I picked up a link to there via Simon Willison's linkblog[1] this morning, which I'll be posting soon.
[1] http://simon.incutio.com/blogmarks/
Posted by: Simon Brunning on August 18, 2004 09:40 AM