I've most often come across this issue building Java web applications. There are just so many pieces to stitch together, and to find places to put; your your build script, your business objects, your tests, your JSPs (or whatever), all your 3rd party JARs, your persistence stuff, your MVC stuff, your IoC stuff, about a gazillion configuration files to make all this lot work together, it just goes on and on. It takes a while, and if you get it wrong, well, everything still works, mostly, but you'll have maintenance nightmares for life.
In fact, it got so out of control that Matt Raible came up with the wonderful AppFuse. Appfuse is great - it builds a project structure for you, using your choice of frameworks, so you can hit the ground running. I only hope that Matt learns to slow down a little!
Perhaps that's what Python needs - not Rails, but AppFuse.
Update: Matt's site seems to be down at the moment. But do try later - AppFuse really is worth a look
Posted to Python by Simon Brunning at January 28, 2005 02:24 PMSpeaking of Rails, see Subway: http://subway.python-hosting.com/. It's pretty much WIP, but looks promising.
Posted by: Marek Baczynski on January 31, 2005 10:46 AMUse a lot less of all the latest toys. Sounds like you're using too many toys all at the same time, when I bet you don;t need to. So there.
Posted by: Mark Matthews on January 31, 2005 02:08 PMAh, but we tried that. Don't you remember, Mark - you were there. ;-) Turns out that you *do* need all this stuff - MVC layer, persistence layer, tests, what is it that you are suggesting that you can do without? You end up spending all your time building your own half-assed versions of everything. We did. Better to use the real thing.
OK, so you can live without an IoC container - but you probably not aware of all the trouble I had arranging for everything to have a reference to the correct connection pool when it needed it. Remember all that connection-a and connection-b shenanigans? And the tests needed their own set of connections, too, 'cos we weren't using real mocks. It was a *nightmare*, and an IoC container would have made it all much simpler.
Posted by: Simon Brunning on January 31, 2005 02:55 PMAh, so what you really mean is"tell me I';m rigth to want to use all thes etoys together"
Ok then: Use all these tiys together and stop whinging about the fact you have to put all the airfix kits together ;-)
Posted by: Mark Matthews on January 31, 2005 03:18 PMOh, and your site should not REQUIRE an email entry to post, it should be optional.
Posted by: Mark Matthews on January 31, 2005 03:20 PMI'm not whinging about it, Mark, I'm pointing out a solution - AppFuse.
Re the email address thing - *I* make the rules around here. It's not a public forum, it's *my* site. I what to know who's posting, and I want to be able to contact them. If someone gives a false address, I reserve the right to delete the post.
If you object to your email address being visible, no problem - leave a URL, and the email address is visible only to me.
Posted by: Simon Brunning on January 31, 2005 03:26 PMNow now children. Good grief - is this what they were like when they worked together?
Posted by: Katherine on January 31, 2005 03:50 PMYou mean - me being right all the time, Mark being wrong, and having trouble with punctuation and spelling.
Yes, that's *exactly* what it was like. ;-)
Posted by: Simon Brunning on January 31, 2005 04:17 PMinteresting
Posted by: dfsfds on October 13, 2005 09:31 PM